Ikiganiro Imvo n’Imvano cyo kuwa 13/9/2014

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Felin Gakwaya: Mwaramukanye amahoro abakunzi b’ikiganiro Imvo n’Imvano. Uyu munsi Imvo n’Imvano irabajyana mu kiyaga cya Rweru, gisangiwe n’ibihugu bibiri by’u Rwanda n’Uburundi, ahamaze iminsi havugwa imirambo y’abantu baza mu gice cy’Uburundi bava mu ruzi rw’Akagera rwo mu Rwanda. Kuva mu kwezi gushize kwa Munani, abarobyi bo mu kiyaga cya Rweru mu Ntara ya Muyinga mu Burundi bakomeje kubona imirambo y’abantu baboshye mu mifuka, baziritsweho n’amabuye. Abo baturage bavuga yuko bamaze kubona imirambo irenga 40 kandi yuko ikomeje kuza iva mu ruzi rw’Akagera rwo mu Rwanda, ikisuka mu kiyaga cya Rweru ku ruhande rw’Uburundi kuko icyo kiyaga gisangiwe n’Uburundi n’u Rwanda. Ku ruhande rw’Uburundi gikora ku Ntara ya Muyinga naho ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda gikora ku Karere ka Bugesera.

 

Ibyo bimaze kuvugwa amashyirahamwe arengera agateka ka muntu mu Burundi yahise asaba leta y’Uburundi gukora amaperereza ngo bamenye abo bantu abo ari bo n’ishyaka rya Green Party ryo mu Rwanda riheruka kubura umuyobozi waryo mu Karere ka Bugesera ryahise risaba yuko haba amaperereza kugira ngo bamenye abo bantu abo ari bo.

 

Ku itariki ya 25 z’ukwezi gushize kwa Munani, abayobozi n’Intara ya Muyinga n’abashizwe umutekano mu Rwanda bagiye kureba iyo mirambo, bumvikana yuko bagomba kuzakomeza gukorana kugira ngo hamenyekane neza abo bantu abo ari bo n’abakora ubwo bwicanyi abo ari bo.

 

Imvo n’Imvano rero yashatse kumenya neza aho abo bantu bava naho ubutegetsi bw’ibihugu byombi bugejeje amaperereza  kugira ngo hamenyekane abo bantu koko abo ari bo n’ababica abo ari bo. Byatumye twohereza Cyriaque Muhawenayo ku kiyaga cya Rweru ku ruhande rw’Uburundi na Phocas Ndayizera ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda. Twanavuganye n’umuyobozi w’Akarere ka Bugesera mu Rwanda, Bwana Rwagaju Louis hamwe n’umushikirangaji w’Ubutegetsi bw’igihugu mu Burundi, Bwana Edouard Nduwimana. Iki kiganiro mwagiteguriwe kandi murakigezwaho na Felin Gakwaya.

 

Reka duhere mu Burundi aho imirambo iboneka kandi imwe ikaba imaze no gushyingurwa twumve uko Cyriaque Muhawenayo yasanze bimeze.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: aha rero turi mu Kiyaga Rweru aho baherutse gutora ibiziga by’abantu. Turi kumwe n’umwe mu barobyi bo ngaha, turagira turaganira abwira, abanze utubwire izina atubwire n’ingine byaba bayaragenze, witwa ngw’iki?

 

Nyandwi Sadiki: Njyewe banyita Nyandwi Sadiki, nkaba ndi umukuru w’abarobyi mu Ntara ya Muyinga, muri Komine Giteranyi.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Iki kiyaga Rweru nicyo baherutse gutoramo ibiziga by’abantu bitekeye mu mifuko, wadusigurira ingine byagenze?

 

Nyandwi Sadiki: Ibyo biziga byarabayeho, njyewe hari ku munsi wa mbere, kuwa kabiri niho babwiye ko babonye ibiziga mu mazi baje bizanana na Kagera, bimenera mu Rweru.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Aho hari mu kuhe kwezi?

 

Nyandwi Sadiki: Hari mu kwezi ku Munani, niho nanjye turi kumwe n’abamarine tujya kuraba kugira ngo tumenye ko inkuru ari yo, dusanga hari igunira rimwe ririmo abantu babiri basha! batekeyemo, uwundi ari umuntu umwe atari mu igunira. Niho twaca tuza tugatangira kucyibwira abayobozi ko hari ibintu biduteye amakenga. Niho batangiye kugikoreraho ku munsi wa mbere haciye haza komisiyo y’Uburundi n’u Rwanda, igipolisi c’u Rwanda n’ic’Uburundi bagiye kuraba ibintu uko bimeze. Niho bahashyika bararaba. Nta nyishyu baduhaye, batubwiye ko bagiye gukora itohoza. Bimaze kugenda uko, uko byagiye birakurikirana, haraheze iminsi ishika itatu, ibiri, baciye baza gupoma kubera abanyagihugu bariko bararwara igwara. Ku munsi wa gatanu, umunsi wo kubihamba naho n’ubundi baragarukanye muganga arabifoma, tuce tugenda turabyandura. Ibiziga bishyika bine barabihamba. Ibindi byo byari bimaze gusangukira mu mazi.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ibyo mwabonye abantu bari bameze gute?

 

Nyandwi Sadiki: Byari biteye ubwoba: abantu mu igunira inyuma bari baboshye n’imbere bari baboheye ndani. Ukuntu bari baboshye: barafataga ukuguru bakaguteranya n’ivi, ugaca usanga ni ibintu biteye ubwoba rwose kandi bari bambaye ubusa. Nta n’umwe wari wambaye n’ikariso n’imwe. Bwari ubwicanyi buteye ubwoba. Waca usanga bafite umugozi mu izosi, baramwambitse ikintu mu maso, bamushyira mu igunira.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Turiko turegereza hamwe mu bibanza mwari mwatoyemo abantu. Murashobora kutubwira neza ingine byagenze?

 

Nyandwi Sadiki: Aho twahashitse! Urumva baje bava mu Kagera, bahashitse urumva baciye baguma kuri urwo rufunzo.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Baja hehe?

 

Nyandwi Sadiki: Aho nyine, aho ubona.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Harya mwahatoye bangahe none?

 

Nyandwi Sadiki: Twahatoye umuntu umwe.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Hama abandi ko mwavuga ko ari bane bagiye he?

 

Nyandwi Sadiki: Abandi turamanuka hepfo, kata!

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Uko twazunguruka muri icyo kiyaga Rweru niko twagenda duhura n’abarovyi b’Abanyarwanda n’Abarundi bamwe bose bagenda batubwira icyo bazi kuri ibyo biziga bimaze iminsi bitorwa muri ico kiyaga.

 

Wowe usanzwe ukorera ngaha muri iki kiyaga?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Yego niho nkorera akazi kanje ka buri munsi.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ibintu by’ibiziga bavuga biguma biraza ngaha muri Rweru hari ibyo wigeze ubona?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Ibiziga narabibonye, vyaraje, bimwe twarabifuvye. Yego, n’ubundi bimwe biraza kubera amarebe agaca abizibira, abanyagihugu baguma babivuga.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Wowe ibyo uherutse kumva, uheruka kuvyumva ryari?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Muri iyi minsi iheze babwiye yuko nanjye nsazwe nkora aho nyine ku cyambu, ndi umukomite, baranterefonye babwira ngo haje umukobwa ngo ufunze umusatsi inyuma.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Aho ni nyuma y’igihe bahambiye ba bandi?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Yee nyuma y’aho, ikiziga kimwe. Nca ndaza rero mu gitondo, umuyaga ngo wagitembesheje, ngo ahantu bita ku isafi. Ahantu tugabanira n’Abanyarwanda. Siniriwe ndagikurikirana rero.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ariko wari waje kuraba?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Nari naje kuraba ndakibura. Nca nsanga cyatebye ngo umuyaga wagitembesheje.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Hari ababikubwire uretse kunoza inkuru?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Abarobyi? Abarobyi nibo babimbariye

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: None mu busazwe ibyo biziga biva he?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi:: Ibiziga biva mu Rwanda. Urumva bimanukana Akagera kose kubera ko Akagera gasatura mu Rwanda hagati bigaca rero kubera ko Akagera kihaye inzira mu Rweru gaca kamena mu Rweru gaca kamena mu Rweru hagati bigaca bishikira aha ngaha ku Mubari. Ni cyo gituma duhita tubibona bivuye i Rwanda.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Mubajije bagenzi banyu b’abarobyi bo mu Rwanda bababwira ngw’iki?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Batubwira ngo nabo ntibazi aho bituruka ariko twe mugabo iyo turabye tubona umenga bituruka mu Rwanda kuko urabona u Rwanda nta kindi gihugu kirwinjiramo nyine, ni cyo nyine Akagera gacamo hagati na hagati, twe tubona tuvuga ko bituruka mu Rwanda.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Amahoro Mutama! Urakomeye?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Ndakomeye!

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Uri umunyarwanda?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Ndi umunyarwanda.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Murabona ko baherutse gutora ibiziga ngaha by’abantu bapfuye. Ibyo waravyumvise?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Yee, narabyumvise ibyo ngibyo.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Kandi waranabibonye?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Narabibonye nyine. Baje no kubifuba hano, nari mpari.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: None ibyo biziga biva he?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Ibiziga? Bituruka iyi ngiyi mu Kagera, biza gutyo, uruhagi dore ruri hano, noneho rukaza mu ruhande rwa rw’Uburundi hano, bikaza rero  byikubita muri Rweru.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ariko ikizwi ntibiza muri Rweru?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Oya. Biva mu kagera

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Murakoze!

 

Nawe warabibonye, igire hino, igira imbere! Uri umunyarwanda?

 

Umurobyi wa kabiri w’umunyarwanda: Njyewe ndi umunyarwanda

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ibintu bivugwa by’ibiziga wowe ubiziho iki?

 

Umurobyi wa kabiri w’umunyarwanda: Ibyo biziga icyo mbiziho nuko bimanuka mu Kagera, bikaza binyuze mu ruhagi rwameneye hano ku mwega w’Uburundi, ibyo biziga bikamanuka, bigata inzira y’Akagera bigakata biza muri urwo ruhagi, bigahita bihunguka hano mu Rweru. Ni ukuvuga ngo bimanuka mu Kagera byamara kugera hafi y’uru ruhagi rumenera hano rukata ruza hano mu Rweru.
Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Mu Burundi?

 

Umurobyi wa kabiri w’umunyarwanda: Yeee bikaba ariho bikatira biza mu Rweru ku ruhande rw’Uburundi, niho bikatira bimanuka.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Mwatanguye kubabona ryari?

Umurobyi wa kabiri w’umunyarwanda: Abo bantu, natangiye kuza mbabona izo ndwi ebyiri maze hano, nazimaze ariko n’abo bantu barajemo hano mbabona, bari mu mifuka, bari bapakiye mu mifuka nibwo buryo nababonyemo.Umwe we yari hano hepfo, niho yari ari ndibaza ko ariho bamukuye, ibindi biziga bigera kuri bitatu byavuye hano ruguru, niho babitoye bajya kubishyingura.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Nawe mutama ntabyo wigeze ubona muri Kagera bibandanya, uretse ibiri ngaha?

 

Umurobyi wa mbere w’umunyarwanda: Hariya mu Kagera ntabwo tuhanyura gusa ababimenya ni ababa batuye hariya ku Kagera cyangwa bahinga hariya ku nkuka. Twe rero ntabwo twabimenya urabona tubona ibintu byagenze gute? Biri hano mu Rweru ariko bije gutya.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Reka dushike mu Kagera tubibarize ntacyo!

 

Umurobyi wa mbere w’umunyarwanda: Iiii, ahubwo nibyo byiza. Mujye mu Kagera, mugende mubabaze uko bimeze!

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Murakoze!

Abo banyarwandabashoboye kuyaga  bavuga yuko ibyo biziga byavuye muri Kagera none ako Kagera kisuha he? Kavuye he? Kisuka hehe?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Akagera kavuye mu kaerega nyine kisukama mu Rweru. Urabona ko kaciye inzira.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ni hehe?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Ni irya nyine ubona, karayiciye kisuka mu Rweru, karamanyura amazi, Urweru urabona ko yagiye ubu harimo amazi y’Akagera gusa. Aha rero ni hamwe dushitse hamwe bya biziga babitora bitatu. Urahabona, Akagera urabona ko kazana aha ngaha urabona ukuntu hatemba byaciye biza byegamira harya. Umufuko umwe warimo abantu babiri, uwundi urimo umuntu umwe. Ukuntu bari baboshye: inyuma bari badaze. Imbere ndani naho byari ibintu biteye ubwoba: wasanga aboheye imbere, aboshye inyuma no mu ijosi harimo umugozi, harimo n’ikintu bamwambitse,

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Bamwambitse hehe?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Bamwambitse mu maso. Baramukuye impuzu zoseee, nta n’umwe yari yambaye impuzu mu bantu bahambwe, mu ijoshi naho hari umugozi umunize, amabuye nayo yarimo ndani kugira ngo ntibazuke. Ababikoze babikoranye ubuhinga bukomeye: harimo amabuye aho twagiye duterura hose, twasaga harimo amabuye, ibuye rinini no kuzuka habaye imbaraga z’Akagera yaba mu Rweru hagati ntibari kuzuka.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Urumva rero aho niyo nzira iyo?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Yeee! Aho inzira ni iyo. Ubu naho tugiye kukwereka aho rwamanyuriye kugira ubone ukuntu rwinjiye mu kiyaga Rweru.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Tuve mu kiyaga Rweru, ubu turiko turerekeza mu ruzi Kagera kugira abasazwe barangura imirimo yabo muri urwo ruzi no mu micungararo yarwo baduhe inkuru y’imvaho nimba koko bahora babona ibyo biziga birengana imbere y’uko byisuka mu kiyaga Rweru.

 

Bite? Turiko turaganira n’abanyagihugu ku byerekeye ibiziga bimaze iminsi bica ngaha! Mwarabibonye?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda wa gatatu: Twarabibonye bimanuka kabisa.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Aho hari ryari?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda wa gatatu: Nko guhera mu itariki ya 30/08/2014 byagumaga bimanuka, nkabona imirambo itemba mu mifuka.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Mwebwe musazwe muba aha Akagera gatembera, muramaze kubona byinshi bibacaho birengana?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda wa gatatu: No mu ijoro hari igihe bacaho n’uko umuntu aba batababora ariko no mu ijoro bacaho, hari igihe umuntu aduga, avuye nka hariya hepfo, ugaca uhuye na bibari batembye mugabo muri iki gihe ndumva aho byasakurije nta bantu bagitemba tukibona.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ndavuga imbere y’aho, imbere y’aho mugereranyije, mwabonye nk’abangana iki?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda wa gatatu: Abaciye mu Kagera bari nka 30 cyangwa barenga.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Mubabona barengana?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda wa gatatu: Yeee, kabisa baratembe, bamanuka barenga 30.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Reka tuganire n’uyu mutama! Mutama, nawe umaze iminsi ngaha, nk’ibiziga waba warabonye bitemba birengana, bica mu Kagera bingana iki?

 

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Numva ari nka 30 pee.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Nsigurira wowe inyine wabibonye!

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Twebwe twakora hariya ruguru dutema, tumaze iminsi nk’ingahe? Nk’icyumweru.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Aho hari ryari?

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Mu kwezi kwa Karindwi. Tugiye kubona tubona abantu mu mifuka bari gutemba. Tukabaza tuti “biriya bintu ni ibiki?”. Icya tubwiye ko ari abantu twabonye umuntu umwe mbese adapfutse, mbese arambuye atya, tuti “ibintu ntabwo byoroshye!” Nuko tukajya tubona imirambo itemba.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Reka tuganire n’uyu mugabo nawe nkeka ko hari icyo abiziho! Hari ikintu uzi kuri ibyo biziga, hari abo wigeze abona batemba, babandanya muri Kagera?

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Abantu gutemba ho baratemba, twarababonye. Twarababonye bashobora kuba barenga nka 30. Abo ariko ni abo tubona ku manywa naho nk’abagenmda mu ijoro bo ni benshi.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ariko batemba bava he?

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Batemba baturuka ruguru bamanuka

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Mu ruhe ruzi?

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Muri uru ruzi rw’Akagera. Batemba bamanuka  nyine.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ubwo rero bava muri Kagera ntabwo bava muri Rweru?

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Ubu ngubu noneho Akagera gasigaye kamena muri Rweru, ubu ngubu basigaye banyura muri Rweru ubu ngubu, bagaseruka aha ngaha.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ariko we nk’ibyo wabonye, byo wiboneye n’amaso yawe byagenze gute?

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Ibyo nabonye n’amaso yanjye, nabonye nyine batemba mu mifuka nyine abantu barenze nka 30. Twebwe tukibaza aho abo bantu bakomoka twebwe bikatuyobera. Batemba bari mu Kagera, bamanuka za Rusumo.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Abo ni abo mwiboneye n’amaso yanyu?

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Abo ni abo n’amaso yacu twiboneye. N’ubu ngubu mu kanya gato wabona banyuzeho bamanuka.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Mupfaso, nawe uba ngaha?

 

Umudamu utavuzwe izina: Yego

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ibyo bintu bariko kuvuga warabibonye?

 

Umudamu utavuzwe izina: Twarabibonye kabisa. Twabonaga abantu, ubwa mbere twabonye umuntu yambaye ubusa, tugeze ubwa kabiri tubona abantu bari gucaho mu tudeyi nyine, turumirwa n’amazi twari twarafunze kunywa, tukagura ayo mwa teke, tukagura n’abana. Icya bikoze cy’ihebuzo ni abo bari barimo gutemba ejobundi. Ntiturongera kubona abandi bantu bamanuka.

 

Undi munyarwanda: Twebwe kugira ngo tumenye ko iyo mifuka arimo abantu, hari abantu bamwe bakinishije bazi ngo ni imari, bahambura umufuka nibwo basangaga harimo umuntu, twabonaga imifuka bitemba ati “biriya ni ibi baba batekeyemo” tutazi ko ari abantu, bawuhambuye nibwo twamenye ko ari umuntu. Ubwo abantu bagumye batemba bamanuka nyine. Ni ukuvuga ngo n’abatemba bambaye ubusa ntiwasha kuvuga ngo ndafata umuntu ngo muzirike aha ngaha, ntazi nyirawe, ari nk’ibintu byaciye ku itangazo, umuntu akavuga ati “nabuze umuntu wanjye, yaguye mu Kagera”, burya nta muntu yaca aha ngaha, twahita tumufata, tukamuboha, nyirawe akaza, akamutora, akajya kumushyingura, ariko tubonye umuntu atembye, nta muntu uba afite uburenganzira bwo kumukoraho n’umwe. Niyo ugerageje kuba wamukoraho, hari benshi bakubwira ko ugiye kumushinyagurira, ugiye kumwambura ibyo ufite [aha ashobora kuba yashakaga kuvuga kumwambura ibyo afite], ugasanga nabyo byakugiraho ingaruka.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ariko se aho mubiboneye mwarabimenyesheje abategetsi b’iwanyu mu Rwanda?

 

Undi munyarwanda: Erega ibyo ngibyo na twebwe mu Rwanda byaduciye, byadukozeho! Ufite kumufata nk’uko nguko, mu Rwanda twaburanye izi manza nyinshi cyane, wamufata gutyo ngo “ni wowe wamwishye”. Ugasanga rero ibyo ngibyo tukakwirirwa twongera kubigira ngo turongera kubafata, ngo tugire gute, usanga rero ibyo ngibyo umuntu atabijyamo kuko ibyinshi byadukozeho ibyo ngibyo. Impamvu batakinyuraho ubu ngubu, bikaba byaranyuze nko kuri radio ababikoraga buriya bafite ukundi kuntu basigaye barahinduye, niyo mpamvu tumaze iminsi tutabona wenda abanyuraho.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Nuko mukomeze mwihangane rero, tuzosubira!

 

Abaturage: Yego yego. Nawe urakoze kandi kudutemberera. Ababishizwe mujye mubikurikirana nyine naho ubundi abanyagihugu barahatikiriye, biragoye.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ibiziga bine bitekeye mu mifuko byari byagaragaye mu minsi iheze byarashyinguwe n’abategetsi b’Intara ya Muyinga ku nkengera y’ikiyaga Rweru. Aha turi ku cyambu Dagaza, ku Mutumba Cyagakori, muri zone Masaka niho rero hahambwe abo bantu bane batowe mu kiyaga cya Rweru. Niho turiko turagana. Reka atwereke aho ariho!

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Turahashyitse. Ni aho, urabona hari imva zitatu, mugabo zirimo abantu bane, imwe irimo babiri kuko yari  yangiritse nta kuntu twari kubateranura kuko bari mu igunira, bari barimo nk’abasanguka.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Igihe babashyingura nta majambo yavuzwe?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Amajambo yavuzwe menshi y’agahinda kuko twaravuze tuti “dushyinguye umuntu tutazi aho baturuka, tutazi amazina yabo, tutazi amadini barimo ni cyo gituma ubona ntawuriko umusaraba, nta na kimwe kiriko kuko tutazi ko yari umusilamu cyangwa yari umupatecote cyangwa yari umugatolika nicyo gituma nta n’ikimenyetso bashyizeho kuko ntabari gushyira ikimenyetso ku muntu batazi imvo n’imvano. Ni cyo gituma ijambo bashyikirije bagize bati “aba duhambye ni abagenzi, ntitwomenya iyo baturuka”, urabona baje bazananye Akagera, kava mu Rwanda gashyika mu Rweru, gashyitse mu Rweru rero, uramva bavuga ngo bakorere amatohoza dusanga Abanyagihugu irwara zari zibarembeje kuko bari batangiye gusanguka kuko si aba abandi batanguye gushyika mu Rweru barasangutse. Bamaze kuraba icyo, icyo bahise bafata, bafashe ingingo yo kubanza kubahamba, batubwira ko bashobora gukora itohoza. Mugabo, twebwe abanyagihugu turindiranye igishyika cyinshi turebe icyo ryagerako kuko ubu byicanyi  burarenze kamere.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Kandi mubari bahari nta n’umwe wigeze umenyamo?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Umuntu umuravye mu maso waramubonye, iyo aba nka nyinewe yari kumenya ati “uyu muntu ni uwo ngaha” kuko uwo twaciye twitegereza mu igunira neza yari umuntu ukiboneka mu maso kandi aboneka ko akeye, umuntu nyine ubona ko umenga yari umutegetsi n’inzara zariko neza, umurabye wabona ko ari umuntu asazwe yaranarima.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Urugendo rwanjye nari nzi ko rurangiye ariko ubwo nyine haciye haza umurobyi Sinabajije Nduwimana Leonidas atubwira ko yaraye abonye ikindi kiziga gitekeye mu mufuko.

 

Undi murobyi w’umurundi witwa Sinabajije Nduwimana Leonidas: Ni ukuvuga njyewe rero naritoye ngiye mu mazi nko mu masaa sita, ubugingo ni uko mpuye n’Akagera kirimo karasohora nk’uko mu mareba, niho nagize nk’uko rero mbona imbwa ya mbere irimo iratemba nk’uku tugeze haruguru gatoya nca mbona rero umuntu bashyize no mu ishashi hanyuma baca baraboha ino inyuma, Mugabo hano bari batoboye hano mu mbavu, amara mu nda y’iwe niyo yaciye avamo, aca araduga hejuru.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Aho ubiboneye wakoze iki?

 

Undi murobyi w’umurundiwitwa Sinabajije Nduwimana Leonidas: Njyewe aho naboneye bino narabwiye Abanyarwanda ti “None mwebwe murashobora kuvoma amazi ngaha mpande y’iyi ntumbi muyabona ntimutangaze ngo bazokuraba uko bokuraho uyu muntu hanyuma ngo bajye kumushyingura? Ngo eke twebwe ibyo bintu turabimenyereye, ngo bivanye ngo nyine mbona buri munsi ngo bama basohotse ngo n’imbwa zose zirasoka ngaha, ngo ntibidutesha umutwe, ngo twama twanyoye amazi ngaha, ngo buri munsi  ngo ntaco tuba, ngo nta gwara turonka, none mwebwe kuva aho bahambiye bariya none ntimwabonye ko hari abadushyigikiye kugira ngo ngaha mu mazi ntihagire ibyononekara? Bati “reka twebwe musabye yuko muturusha akantu, mwoduhamagaririra bariya bategetsi  bakaza akaba aribo babidufasha naho ubundi natwe ino mu Rwanda baraduhiga cyane rwose

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: None iki kiziga cyaba ariko kikiri?

 

Undi murobyi w’umurundiwitwa Sinabajije Nduwimana Leonidas: N’ubu niho kiri, n’ubu kiracyari mu marebe na kare twagiciyeko, n’ejo twaragiciyeko tugenda na kare mu gitondo twaragiciyeko tuza mbe n’imbwa zibiri ziri impande yacyo.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Twaciye dufatana urugendo n’uwo wabwiye ko yabonye ikiziga, turiko turegereza aho yoba yarakibonye, turi nko ku metero zitatu, reka utubwire!

 

 

Undi murobyi w’umurundiwitwa Sinabajije Nduwimana Leonidas: N’amara, n’amara riri hejuru.

 

Undi: Iyo ni ishashi bamushizemo!

 

Undi: Ni ishashi bamushyizeho, gusa yaratobotse, yaratobotse hejuru.

 

Abarobyi b’abarundi: Oya, ntushyire hejuru! Ntushyire hejuru. Reka, reka, yakirabye!

 

Undi: Gifotore harya nyine, aho uko! Mureke muriko muragitabura! Caramanyutse!

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ca hirya!

 

Undi: Muse nkabagisubiza i gasozi; urarebe, ntugwemo! Uca wandura umwanda!

 

Undi: Gisunike gise nkikiraba hariya!

 

Undi: Reka, ntukoreko!

 

Undi: Ni umuntu kweli, fotora, fotara!

 

Undi: Mu ndabire kweli, aba bantu kweli, Mana yanjye!

 

Undi: Rekura, sawa, tugende!

 

Undi: Cyaraje rero cyarasangutse, cyarabaye nabi niho twakibonye tugiye kuroba amafi twebwe abarobyi turi abahungu batanu niho rero twaciye tuvuga rero ni ukubibwira abantu badukuriye hariya ku cyambu kugira ngo barabeko babidufashemo bagikure muri uru ruzi.

 

Cyriaque Muhawenayo: Ikibazo cy’ibyo biziga biza biva mu ruzi Akagera ni kayoberabahinga. Haba mu gihugu c’u Rwanda cyanke c’u Burundi bose baguma bavuga ko atabantu babuze.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Tumaze kumva uko mu Burundi bimeze twagiye no ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda maze Phocas Ndayizera abanza ku kirwa Mazane kiri mu murenge wa Rweru.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Mu masaha y’igitondo mpagera abarombyi batunganya incundura zabo bitegura akazi k’ijoro ko kuroba. Abarobyi babwiye ko ibimaze iminsi bivugwa ku mirambo yamanutse mu Kagera ikaza ku ruhande rw’u Burundi mu kiyaga Rweru itigeze ihagarika ibikorwa byabo kuko ngo ntaho uruhande baherereyemo ruhuriyemo nahabonetse iyo mirambo. Uyu musaza umaze imyaka 62 aroba mu kiyaga Rweru we n’abangenzi be bavuga ko bwari ubwa mbere bumvise abantu bangana batyo kandi ntawe uzi aho baturutse.

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Natangiye mfite imyaka 13 ndoba muri iki kiyaga kugeza na n’uyu munsi.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Ntiwigeze wumva umuntu amanuka mu Kagera ngo aze aho hantu?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Nta na rimwe, yewe n’abasogokuru n’abandi nasanzemo, nta na rimwe birabaho. Ntubona? Ahantu ubona na none hameze nka kuriya na none ari ikigina, ahantu uri kuhabona? Hariya ni i Burundi. Ni ukuvuga ngo bababonye kuva nka hariya bamanuka kuri uru ruhande nko muri kilometero wenda nk’eshanu.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Ku ruhe ruhande?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Mu ruhande rw’Uburundi.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Baturutse he?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Bitewe n’abavandimwe b’iburundi turobana hano baje babitubwira ko bamanutse Akegera ariko ko batazi aho bavuye noneho Akagera kabakubita kabazana mu Rweru. Nabo ari Abarundi batubwira ko batazi abo ari bo, natwe tukavuga tuti “ntitubazi”. Inaha mu kiyaga cyacu nta bantu twatakaje. Ntabo.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Mwarashakishije guhera uwo munsi?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Rwose! Marine, njyewe icya mbere nk’ubu nshunga ikiyaga, mfatanya na Marine, twarazengurutse iminsi  iyi; itatu, tubaza ko hari umunyarwanda waba yaguye mu mazi: nta n’umwe n’Abarundi twegeranye kuri izi mbibi nyine ubona nabo bakavuga bati “nta murundi wacu twatakaje!” Baje batemba mu Kagera gusa, nta n’ubwo tuzi n’ibyo ari byo. Abenshi nta n’ubwo tubazi. Imirambo twebwe twabashije kuhava tuhabonye yari ine.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Abavugaga se ko yageraga no muri 40, abandi 15?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Njye ndakubwiza ukuri. Sinavuga ibintu ntabonye. Twari kumwe n’Abarundi. Iri mu gifuka. Buri murambo wari mu gifuka. Ashobora kuba ari umuntu yaba yarahemukiye abo bantu cyangwa abantu runaka, urumva abantu bane, ntabwo umuntu umwe yabica ahubwo nene ikibazo natwe twagize ni uko Abarundi nabo bavugaga bati “aba bantu tuzababaza ikihe gihugu”? Natwe tugira ikibazo: ese aba bantu tuzababa ikihe gihugu? Noneho u Rwanda rwo rukavuga ruti “ese nta Banyarwanda bacu batakaye kandi na none abo bantu bari iwanyu, iwanyu i Burundi, nonese murabona bahambwa n’u Rwanda? Turebye dusanga abantu bagomba kujya mu ruhamde rw’iburundi bitewe niho abantu bari bari, Abarundi baratwemerera bati “tugiye kuzabashyingura”. Hari abayobozi bwite. Abarundi bajya inama ku bwabo, twebwe turasezerana, turataha.

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Umuntu ashobora kugwa mu mazi aya masaha nk’ubu turi kumwe tuvugana ndabona ni saa sita n’iminota 17, ukazongera kumubona ejo saa sita n’iminota 17.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Ari hejuru?

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Aribwo agiye hejuru.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Ha handi yaguye…

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Aba akiraho ariko mu Kagera ho aragenda kuko Akagera gatemba.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Niyo mpamvu wemeza ko batebye?

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Niyo mpamvu rero Akagera ko, ni ukuvuga ngo ntiwavuga ngo bakomotse aha kuko Akagera acyigwamo aragenda byanga bikunda ariko nkaha mu kiyaga cy’u Rweru ntiyagenda kuko ikiyaga ntigitemba.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Icyo kuvuga ko baje bakabajugunya aho cyo namwe mubona atari cyo?

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Ntabwo ari cyo pe! Ni bande ko nta vedettes twumva mu Kagera ziza nijoro? Ko nta mato tubona, ko ntanaho banyura cyane ko n’abantu barahinga inkuka, barihinga imibande n’iki, bigendera batembera bareba uko imibande imeze. Ni ahantu bantu ni urujya n’uruza ndetse cyane Akgera kadenga kanyura aho abaturage batuye ku nkombe. Ntabwo abo bantu babura kubabona.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Tugarutse inyuma gato, hari umuyaga wa wundi twavuze uhuha ugana aha n’aha ashobora nano ne kugenda mu cyerekezo umuyaga ujyanama amazi?

 

Undi murobyi w’umunyarwanda: Hari icyerekeza umuyaga ujyamo ariko twabivuze ku kiyaga cy’u Rweru ntwabwo twabivuze ku Kagera. Ni ukuvuga ngo ni itandukaniro. Urweru aguyemo umuyaga wamutwara ukamushyira i Burundi cyangwa ukamuzana mu Rwanda ariko noneho ibindi ni Akagera, Akagera rero ko ni ukuvuga ngo ko ntikanayaga, ni ugutemba gusa. Nanakubwiye ko abo bantu impamvu baje guseruka mu Rweru bakaza bakaza kuboneka i Burundi hariya ni uko ari n’iyo nzira iba y’ayo mazi yameneye i Burundi, banaje bajya i Burundi noneho ni ukuvuga ko kubera ko Abanyarwanda n’Abarundi duhurira mu kiyaga byabaye ngombwa ko ubuyobozi bw’u Rwanda bumenya ibyo bintu n’u Burundi bukamenya ibyo bintu kugira ngo barebe uko ibyo bintu babigenza.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Hari n’ibitemba bivuye mu Kagera bikagana kuri uru ruhande?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Yego, bikagana hano kuri runo ruhande kuko biragenda byagera hariya hakurya, hariya ubina hameza nka hiriya mu cyambu cyo mu Burundi, umuyaga umuhengeri ukabikubita biza hano mu mazi yo mu Rwanda.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Wenda ku muntu umenyereye gukoresha amazi nkawe, kuki iyo mirambo yatembe igana i Burundi ntitembe igana kuri uru ruhande?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Ni ukuvuga kuba yaratembe igana i Burundi, n’ubundi Akagera uwo mutembo wako ukokombeka mu Burundi, n’ubundi uwo mutembo uba mu Burundi. Ni ukuvuga ngo kugira ngo bizagere inaha byaba bigoranye kuko biragarenda  bigahita bisagama ahantu no mu rutoki, mu kabande iwabo kuko ikiyaga niho kigera.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Mu myaka wenda wabayeho hano mu mazi nta yindi mirambo yaba yaramanutse mu Kagera ngo igane ku gice cy’u Rwanda cyangwa cy’u Burundi bigaragare ko n’ubundi icyo kintu gisazwe kiba?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Njyewe mfite imyaka 36 ariko kuva menye ubwenge, narangije ishuri ntangira kuroba. Nta muntu uratemba avuye mu Kagera ngo aze mu kiyaga cya Rweru. Ikiyaga cya Rweru impamvu ndikubikubwira n’i Burundi gikoraho, hose ni kimwe ariko ntabwo twari tumenyereye imirambo iva mu Kagera iza mu Rweru.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Yahitaga ikomezanya n’Akagera?

 

Umurobyi w’umunyarwanda: Yahitaga ikomezanyaga n’Akagera bigakomeza bikamanuka. Natwe ni ukuvuga ngo ni ibintu byadutunguye.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Mu bakora umurimo w’uburobyi ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda harimo n’umurundi twaganiriye, avuga ko yashoboye kugera aho iyo mirambo yari iri itaragabanuka. We akaba yemeza ko yabonye 15 mu gihe abandi bo bavuga ko babonye ine gusa.

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi ukorera ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda: Abo nibonye njye ku giti c’iwange ni abantu 15. Nibo nabonye. Urabona nk’uku hatekereje umuyaga nk’uku bakaguma hano ariko nk’umuyaga uvuze, ukagenda nk’uku, bamwe baza bagaca bagenda twaciye tubimenyesha ib’iwacu kubera aba b’ino ntibogenda hariya, baciye bagenda; abashyitse bababoba, bababohera ahantu ku gihunzo nk’uku, bakaguma aho.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Niba wararebye, wabonaga abo bantu ari Abanyarwanda, wabonaga ari Abarundi?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi ukorera ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda: Isura y’Umunyarwanda? None umunyarwanda n’umurundi barasa  gusa.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: N’ubusazwe nta bantu bajya batemba mu Kagera, bakaza bakahahagama?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi ukorera ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda: Oya. Sha nta bantu twari twabona mu Rweru n’abo banyarwanda babo harashobora guhera nk’umwaka uwundi ukarenga, ata muntu uguyemo. Nk’ab’iwanyu baca bihuta kuza kuguhiga. Twagiye kumenya ko ari n’abantu bitebye. Hari n’abantu babiri bagiye biterurira ibigunira, bibaza ngo ni amasaka, ngo bitoraguriye imari, bapfunduye basanga ni bantu barimo. Baraperereza mu Rweru bumve ko atamuntu amaze kuroheramiramo, bumva ntawe. Ubwo aba mbere nibwo bahise batangiye kubahambisha, basanga ni ibisazwe. Ubwo rero ahagira kabiri haciye haza rero binyuranyije ari benshi ari benshi kugira abo bantu 40 bababona n’abantu bari hehe? Bari baganditse ku rya mwotsi bo batigira bahava, ha hantu ariko Akagera kagira iki? Kazana ya nkukumba y’ibintu byose kababibacisha impande bigenda.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Ukorera mu Rwanda, ukaba unatuye kuruhande rw’i Burundi, nta bantu wigeze wumva baho hafi bashobora kuba baraguye mu mazi?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi ukorera ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda: Oya, nta n’umwe. Nta n’uherutse kugwa mu Rwuru

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Nta n’umuryango wavuze ko wabuze umuntu?

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi ukorera ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda: Oya, ino ngaha nirirwa aha. Nta muntu ndumva yabuze hano, nta n’uwo ndigera numva wabuze mu Burundi harya.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Umuyobozi w’Akarere ka Bugesera, Rwagaju Louis avuga ko bamaze kumenya neza ko nta muturage w’aho hafi waburiwe irengero ndetse no ku ruhande rw’Uburundi bitari ngombwa kwirirwa bakora iperereza ngo kuko bitegeze bihungabanya na gato umubano w’abaturiye icyo kiyaga ku mpande zombi.

 

Umuyobozi w’Akarere ka Bugesera: Akarere kacu ka Bugesera gakora ku kiyaga cya Rweru  ndetse kakaba ari Akarere kazungurutswe n’umugezi w’Akagera. Amazi yaba ari amazi y’uruzi rw’Akagera, yaba ari amazi y’ikiyaga cya Rweru ni amazi akoreshwa cyane n’abaturage b’Akarere bacu ka Bugesera mu bikorwa by’ubuhinzi, mu biorwa by’uburobyi no mu buzima bwabo bwa buri munsi. Nta kibazo dufite muri ayo mazi,  nta n’icyo twigeze tubona, twumvise ibyavuzwe ku bitangazamakuru bitandukanye ariko natwe twabshije gukurikirana mu midugudu cyane cyane ikikije urwo ruzi yaba ari urtuzi rw’Akagera yaba ari imidugudu ikikije ikiyaga cya Rweru. Nta muntu n’umwe mu bakoresha ayo amazi twaba twarumvise waba waragize ikibazo wenda ngo aburerwe irengero cyangwa baba bakeka ko ari we waguye mu mazi. Nta kibazo kindi kirekire twigeze twumva gihari, nta n’uwo twigeze twumva avuga ko yabuze umuntu we. Ku ruhande rwacu rero nta kibazo yaba ari icyo gukoresha ayo mazi, ari imirambo bavuga yabonetse mu mazi ku ruhande rwacu ntayo twabonye, ari abaturage bakoresha ikiyaga cya Rweru mu burobyi, ari abakora imirimo yo guhinga mu nkengero z’Akagera ntawaba yaratubwiye ko yaba yarabonye umuntu ucaho, umurambo uca mu mazi. So, ku ruhande rwacu rero nta mpamvu yo kwirirwa dukora iperereza kuko nta kibazo twigeze tubona muri ayo mazi.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Wenda nk’uko rimwe na rimwe abahuriye ku mupaka bajya bajya inama, bakungurana ibitekerezo bagafashaya, ntago mwigeze munakurikirana wenda ngo mubafashe kumenya ukuri kw’ibyo bintu kw’aho iyo mirambo yaba yaraturukaga?

 

Umuyobozi w’Akarere ka Bugesera: Inzego zikikije umupaka ndetse n’umupaka umwe ubundi turi abaturanyi baturanye ubundi tugira inama ziduhuza, haba hari ibibazo runaka abantu bagahura bakaganira ariko nta Murundi uvuga ko afitanye ikibazo n’Umunyarwanda ku mupaka, nta Munyarwanda uvuga ko afitanye ikibazo n’Umurundi ku mupaka. Twumva aho duhuriye ku mipaka yari ari ku gace kacu ka Bugesera kagabana no hakurya mu Ntara ya Kirundo muri Komine tugabana nta bibazo dufitanye bituma yenda dutuza by’ihutirwa cyangwa se dutumirana mu nama zidasazwe, turaganira nabo, aho tugabana batubwiye ko nta kibazo bafite, nabo nta bantu babuze. Nkumva rero umubano wacu uburyo dufatanya umunsi ku munsi yaba ari mu baturage b’umurenge wa Rweru baturanye n’ikiyaga cya Rweru nta kibazo bafitanye n’abaturanye babo bo hakurya. Tukaba twumva umubano ni usanzwe, ubufatanye ni ubusanzwe. Nta kibazo na kimwe twebwe tubonamo.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Abaturage baturiye ikiyaga cya Rweru hari amabwiriza yihariye mwaba mwarabahaye yo gukoresha amazi? Ese yaba yaranduye?

 

Umuyobozi w’Akarere ka Bugesera: Nta kibazo dufite cy’amazi yanduye. Yenda iby’imibiri yagaragaye mu kiyaga cya Rweru nk’uko nanjye nabyumvise biri mu gice cya ruguru nyine kigana mu Ntara ya Muyinga cyane cyane muri Komini za ruguru. Ntabwo ari igice cyegereye iwacu ariko nta mabwiriza yihariye abayobozi b’Akarere ka Bugesera twahaye abaturage bakikije ikiyaga cy’uburyo bwo kuyakoresha gusa nabo mu gihe baba baramutse babonye hari umuntu waguye mu mazi bafite inshingano yo kumuvanamo. Icyo gihe haramutse hari ubonetse birumvikana ko  twakurikirana tukamenya icyo yazize, aho yavuye, byaba na ngombwa  ndetse hakaba hanafatwa n’ababigizemo uruhare, uruwaramutse aguye mu mazi yenda hari abandi babigizimo uruhare kugira ngo dukurikirane ibyo bibazo ariko kugeza kuri uyu munota tuvugana, ku mazi yegereye Bugesera, mu murenge wa Rweru kuko nawe wahigereye, ngira ngo waganiriye n’abaturage batandukanye, n’abakoresha amazi mu buryo butandukanye, nta kibazo kidasazwe gihari ariko na none amazi y’ikiyaga ndetse n’ay’imigezi akenshi birumvikana ko akoreshwa mu bikorwa by’ubuhinzi aho abaturage bayavomeresha imyaka itandukanye, agakoreshwa mu bikorwa by’uburobyi, aho abaturage bakoramo imirimo y’uburobyi itandukanye ndetse hari n’abayakoresha mu bijyanye n’imirimo yo mu rugo: guteka, kunywa ariko icyo gihe nk’ibisazwe bakoreshwa imiti yo kuyasukura ndetse abandi bakayateka ku buryo butuma bitabangiriza ubuzima.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Mukurikije imiterere y’Akagera kamanuka kakajya gakora ku ruhande rw’Uburundi n’u Rwanda. Ku ruhande rw’Uburundi bakomeje kuvuga yuko iyo mirambo yaba yaraturutse ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda, ni iki mubivugaho mwebwe?

 

Umuyobozi w’Akarere ka Bugesera: Icyo kibazo ntago nabashije kugikurikirana, ngo menye ngo abantu bavuye ha ngaha no kugira birebire nkivugaho kwaba ari ukurengera cyangwa se kuvuga ibintu gusa by’ibitekerezo by’umuntu ariko nkurikije abaturage baturiye uruzi rw’Akagera, nkurikije yuko urwo ruzi rw’Akagera rufite abaturage barukoraho ibikorwa byinshi by’ubuhinzi mu mirenge itandukanye, yaba ari umurenge wa Rweru uturiye ku kiyaga, yaba umurenge wa Gashora uturiye ku ruzi rw’Akagera, yaba ari umurenge wa Juru cyangwa hafi imirenge myinshi yacu wava i Ntarama, wava Mwogo, Juru, Gashora, Ririma bose bakora ku ruzi rw’Akagera. Ubusanzwe iyo hari mu mazi, mu mazi bantu bakoresha amazi hari igihe haba impanuka zo mu mazi bibaho, ubwato bukaba bwakwibarandura abantu bakagwamo, yenda umuntu akaba yajya kuroba muri ayo mazi akaba yafatirwamo n’inyamaswa runaka, habamo ingona, habamo imvubu, habamo inyamaswa z’inkazi zitandukanye zishobora gutuma haba abantu babura ubuzima bwabo muri ayo mazi ariko ubusazwe bitewe n’uko hari abantu benshi bakikije ayo mazi ku ruhande rw’Akarere kacu bayakoresha iyo haramutse hagize abantu bagiriramo impanuka, baburiramo ubuzima bwabo akenshi na kenshi ba bandi bakoresha amazi barababona, bakabavanamo, tukabasubiza gaciro kabo, tukabashyingura mu cyubahiro nk’uko umuco wacu ubiteganya. Muri iyi minsi rero nta raporo twigeze tubona y’abantu bavuga ko babonye abantu babonye imirambo mu mazi, ko hari umuntu waguye mu mazi, niyo mpamvu ntigeze mfata umwanya wanjye wo kujya gukurikirana icyo kibazo. Iyo tuba haba hari amaraporo tubona ko hari abantu baguye mu mazi wenda tuba twaratanze n’amatangazo; iyo twabuze ba nyirabo akenshi dutanga amatangazo kuri radio, tugasaba uwo ari wese wabuze umuntu ko yakora iperereza, yaza kureba imibiri twabonye ko ari iyabo ariko twe ntayo twigeze tubona mu karere kacu niyo twimvise yabonetse i Burundi, biragoye kuba nakubwiba ngo yavuye aha, nakwemeza hao yavuye kandi ntarayibonye, ntarigeze nkora n’ubushakashatsi cyangwa n’iperereza kuri iyo mibiri ariko turizera ko wenda aho imibiri yaba yarabonetse bazakomeza gukora iperereza n’ubushakashatsi kugira ngo bamenye aho abo bantu baba baravuye, ndumva aricyo navuga. Ku ruhande rwacu rw’Akarere kugeza ubu ngubu nta kibazo dufite.

 

Phocas Ndayizera: Uwo yari Rwagaju Louis, umuyobozi w’Akarere ka Bugesera ariko nk’uko yari abivuze, nagerageje gushaka kujya mu kiyaga Rweru kureba aho u Rwanda n’u Burundi bigabanira ariko ntibyanshobokera kubera ko ntabiherewe uruhushya n’abasirikare b’abamarine aribo bashyizwe kurinda amzi y’icyo kiyaga. Iki kiganiro nagiteguriye ku nkombe z’ikiyaga Rweru ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda.

Felin Gakwaya: Ishyaka Green Party ryo mu Rwanda riheruka kubura umuyobozi waryo mu karere ka Bugesera, Bwana Jean Damascene Munyeshyaka wabuze kuva ku itariki ya 27 z’ukwezi kwa Gatandatu muri uyu mwaka, iryo shyaka rero rikaba ryarasabye leta zombi z’u Rwanda n’Uburundi gukora amaperereza yimbitse kugira ngo bamenye neza abo bantu abo ari bo. Navuganye n’umuyobozi wa Green Party, Frank Habineza, mbanza kumubaza niba hari icyo babasubije.

 

Frank Habineza: Kugeza na n’ubu turacyakomeje iyo gahunda yo gusaba yuko byakorwa, ndumva icyo tutarakora ni ukubisaba mu rwego officiellement, ni ukuvuga kubyandika tubisaba inzego zibishizwe ariko kubera ko mu rwego rwa politiki twabivuze turumva ko ababishyizwe babyumvise kandi ko bagomba kubikora. Twumva yuko ibyiza ari uko nka leta yacu kubera ko bafite ibyuma bya kabuhariwe bafite ubu, bishobora gukora amaperereza ndetse n’abatekinisiye babyigiye ko bagerageza bagakora iryo perereza noneho hakavaho icyo kintu cy’urujijo, tukamenya neza uko bimeze.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Murasaba iperereza ariko nawe wari uvuze ngo ntabwo mwari mwagerageza kubisaba mu buryo bugaragara, ni ukuvuga mu buryo buri officiel, ni iki kibabuza kubisaba mu buryo buri officiel na cyane cyane ko ibyo murimo muravuga biraba ku butaka bw’Uburundi, ni abategetsi b’Uburundi, ntabwo ari abategetsi b’u Rwanda mubisaba; ni iki kibabuza kuba mwajya kubaza abategetsi b’Uburundi yuko izo mpungege namwe muzifite kugira ngo ari bo bakora iryo perereza?

 

Frank Habineza: Mbere twasabaga ko iperereza rikorwa iriya mirambo itarashyingura noneho tuza kugira ikibazo yuko iyo mirambo yashyinguwe noneho dutangira kubaza abavoka bacu icyo twakora kubera ko iyo mirambo yashyinguwe noneho turibaza ukuntu iryo pererza ryakorwa. So twari tutarabona neza igisubizo cy’abavoka, uko twabigenza niba twazabitwara i Burundi ariko ubwo turumva ko mu minsii tari iya kure tuba tumaze kubona umwanzuro w’abavoka bacu.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Kugeza na n’ubu ngubu umuntu wanyu ntabwo murabona?

 

Frank Habineza: Kugeza na n’ubu ngubu umuntu wacu turacyamushakisha, ntabwo turamubona, ubwo turumva polisi y’igihugu, iracyabirimo iracyamushakisha ndetse natwe turashyiramo imbaraga zitandukanye tumushakisha ubwo twese turimo gufatanya ngo tumushakishe.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Igihe twavuganaga ubushyize wari wavuze yuko hari abantu banyu bari bashatse kureba iyo mirambo uko imeze, niba bashoboraga kumubona, hari icyo bagezeho?

 

Frank Habineza: Ntacyo bashoboye kugeraho, urumva ko bumvise ibyo bintu byabaye, abantu bashakaga kugerayo ariko kubera ko batashoboye kubona iyo mirambo face a face ntabwo bashoboye kumenya neza ibyo bintu ibyo ari byo ariko ni ukubera ko nabo bagize ubwoba, ntabwo turacika intege kumva ko yazimiye burundu, turumva ko ashobora kuba kuko ashobora kuba akiri muzima niyo mpamvu tugishakisha.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Na n’ubu tukivugana, ejo umunyamakuru wacu yari yagiye mu Ntara ya Muyinga kongera kwirebera, agera hariya muri kiriya kiyaga cya Rweru asanga baraye babonye uwundi murambo, ni ukuvuga imirambo iracyaza, n’ubu ngubu mushobora kohereza abantu bakajya i Burundi bakagenda bakajya kureba iyo mirambo iyo ari yo?

 

Frank Habineza: Twebwe urumva dufite abantu dukorana nabo muri Burundi, dufiteyo mouvement, bita ‘Mouvements de Vert Burundais’, Burundi Green mouvement, turumva tuzaganira nabo mu minsi itari iya kure kandi twashyizeho ikintu cyitwa East Green Federation cyangwa se Federation des Verts au niveau Est africaine. So turumva cyo twarimo gutekereza cyane ko ari cyo cyadufasha kubera ko urumva  ko birenze imbibi z’u Rwanda kandi twebwe ubushobozi dufite ni ugukorera politiki mu Rwanda, ntabwo tubufite mu Burundi ariko kubera ko dufite abagenzi mu Burundi ndetse tukaba dufite n’urwo rwego rwa East Africa, twarushyizeho umwaka ushize, turumva ko izo nzego ebyiri bashobora kuba badufasha mu gukurikirana icyo kibazo natwe tukaba tubirimo ariko hakaba hari izindi nzego, ati twebwe direct kubera ko birenze ubushobozi bwacu.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Hanyuma ku ruhande rw’u Rwanda rwo ni iki mwifuza ko cyakorwa na cyane cyane ko muvuga ko umuntu wanyu ataraboneka kandi mukavuga yuko u Rwanda rufite ibyuma kabuhariwe, bo bo murabasaba iki?

 

Frank Habineza: Urumva iyo mirambo twari twavuze ko basuzuma yarashyinguwe, ubu haracyarimo ikibazo ku cyo twavuga ko cyakorwa ubu ariko haramutse hari ubundi buryo ibyo bita forensic, bashobora kuba hari ikintu bakora, ndumva babifitiye ubushobozi kuko na forensic bayikora n’iyo abantu baba barashyinguwe ariko bafite ubushobozi bashobora kuba babikora, ndumva babikora cyane cyane ko twumvise ko abo bantu bashyinguwe na autopsie ikozwe.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Ariko n’ubwo abo bashyinguwe hari abandi bakiza?

 

Frank Habineza: Ayo makuru y’abandi bakiza ntabwo turabibona neza twebwe niba hari n’ayahari nabyo ni ibindi bintu twakongera tugahagurukira cyane cyane noneho haramutse hari n’ibindi bibonetse ndumva icyo gihe igihu cyacu cyakagombe kubigiramo uruhare, bikamenyekana neza aho iyo mirambo iri kuva.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Arakoze Frank Habineza, umuyobozi wa Green Party mu Rwanda. Twanashatse kumenya icyo abashyizwe umutekano mu Rwanda babivugaho maze umuvugizi w’igipolisi  atubwira yuko ntacyo bafite babivugaho ngo kuko ngo imirambo iri mu Burundi, ngo tugomba kubaza abayobozi bo mu Burundi. Mbere yo kuja ku bayobozi b’u Burundi, nabanje kujya mu ishyirahamwe rirengera agateka ka kiremwa muntyu mu biyaga bigari LDGL, ishami ryo mu Burundi, ryasabye leta y’Uburundi gukora amaperereza maze mvugana n’umuyobozi waryo Maitre Cyriaque Ndayisenga, abanza kubwira yuko bagifite impungege.

 

Maitre Cyriaque Ndayisenga: Gushyika na n’ubu impungege twashyikirije ntizirabonerwa umuti kuko twari twasabye yuko hobaho amatohoza yigenga, ayo matohoza akaba ariyo nk’uko amategeko abitegekanya, ashobora kwerekana ukuri, abantu bakamenya icyagandaguye barya bantu, bakamenya ko bari Abanyarwanda cyanke yuko bari Abarundi cyanke yuko bari Abatanzaniya cyanke yuko bari abandi, hakamenyekana yuko bishwe kumbure barashwe cyanke basogoswe imbugita cyanke babakubise amahiri kuko ubuzima ni katihabwa nk’uko amategeko y’agateka ka zina muntu abivuga ariko gushyika n’ubu twebwe na bene abantu, amakungu, ntiharamenyekana ukuri kuri buriya bwicanyi.

 

Felin Gakwaya: None uretse kubivuga kw’iradio hari ibyo mwari mwashyikiriza ubutegetsi?

 

Maitre Cyriaque Ndayisenga: Twebwe twarabitangaje ku maradio ni byo, tugasaba ubutegetsi yuko bwogira ayo matohoza, tukaba twasabye yuko ubutegetsi bwa leta y’Ubundi na leta y’u Rwanda byokorana kubera yuko icyo kiyaga cya Rweru kiri hagati y’ibyo bihugu bibiri ariko ubutegetsi bwarabyumvise ndetse twaje kuva n’ikiganiro umuvugizi wa leta y’Uburundi, Philippe Nzobonariba none arashikiriza ijambo ku radio avuga yuko amatohoza nawe nyine ari ngombwa urumva twabivuga kumwe nk’uko bavuga ngo “abagabo barara ukubiri, bakarota kumwe” urumva yuko akamo kacu leta yakumvise; mugabo byohagarariye ngaho. Gushika ubu ntituramenya ikindi kintu leta yakoze, leta ntiratangaza icyavuye muri ayo matohoza, ntiratangaza ndetse nuko ayo matohoza yatanguye, ngo abantu bizere bati “turindirinye ukwizigira ko matohoza yatanguye, turindiranye ukwizigira, tuzomenya icyagandaguye abo bantu”. Urumva leta yari yumvise akamo twayiteye, ibyo byari bihagihe, byari byotunezereye, byadushimishije; mugabo, urumva ko bidahagije.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Hanyuma, uretse ko leta niba mwateye akamo leta ikabyumva mukabona se yuko ntabyo arimo gukora, mwebwe ubwanyu ntabwo mwakora amaperereza ngo mugende kuko na n’ubu turacyumva imirambo igikomeza kuza, umunyamakuru wacu twamwohereyejeyo ejobundi yari ariyo, agerayo abona ibindi biziga birimo biraza, mwembwe ntabwo mwatera intambwe ngo mukore amaperereza yanyu?

 

Maitre Cyriaque Ndayisenga: Twebwe ibyo turiko turabitegura kuko ntibyoguma gutyo, turiko turahura n’ayandi mashyirahamwe mpuzamakungu, kumbure si ngombwa ngo tubivuge ubu nyine ku mararadiyo kugira ngo natwe turonke ibyegeranyo byacu nk’amashyiramwe mpuzamakungu yita ku kiremwa muntu, turiko turabitegura ariko byari vyiza yuko leta kuko ariyo ifise itegeko ihabwa n’amategeko guhera ku mategeko nshinga, ibwiriza nshingiro, amaleta niyo afise itegeko ryo gutumbera umutekano w’abenegihugu bayo hamwe no kumenyesha icyo cyose cyohungabanya ubuzima cyanke agateka ka zima muntu ku mwene gihugu w’igihugu icyo ari cyo cyose biba ari ngombwa kuri leta ngo ikurikize amategeko yo nyine yiyemeje.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Maze kumva ibyo Maitre Cyriaque Ndayisenga avuga n’ibyo Frank Habineza wo muri Green Party avuga ndetse n’ibyo abo baturage basaba, nagiye ku Mushikirangaji w’Ubutegetsi bw’igihugu mu Burundi, Bwana Edward Nduwimana, mbanza kumubuza icyo ubutegetsi bw’Uburundi bumaze gukora kuri iki kibazo

 

Minisitiri Edward Nduwimana: Ni vyo nk’uko mubizuze haraheze iminsi havugwa ndetse si ukuvugwa gusa haranabonetse ibibiga, ibiziga by’abantu batekeye bapfuye mu magunira bamwe ndetse baciwe n’amaguru. Ibyo biziga rero bikaza biva mu Kagera bikisuka mu Rweru, ibyo byatanguye kuboneka hagati mu kwezi ku Munani nko mu itariki 11 gushika hagati y’itariki 11 n’itariki 17 ariko ku itariki 15, 16 niho abarobyi baba Abarundi baba abarobyi bo mu Rwanda batanguye kuva bati “nyabuna turabona ibyo biziga biza biva mu Kagera byisuka mu kiyaga Rweru. Aho rero aho tumvumviye abajejwe intwaro, abajejwe umutekano haba mu bice by’Uburundi no mu Rwanda bahavuye bashika aho hantu maze bamaze kuhashika barabona ko koko yuko hariho ibiziga hafi bitatu ndetse biboneye amaso mu yandi bitekeye mu magunira, ubwo rero aho bamariye kubibona bwa mbere na mbere twababwira yuko baba Abarundi baba Abanyarwanda ibyo bintu biba bibabaje kandi biteye n’ubwoba bigatera n’isoni. Byumvikana rero igikuru atari ukubanza kuraba ati “mbega ni ibiziga by’Abanyarwanda? Ni ibiziga by’Abarundi batanako umwikomo”. Icyo bakoze kwabaye ukubanza kuraba ingine vyo heza bigashyingurwa, bikavanwa muri ayo mazi. Ikindi nacyo ni uko kubera imigenderanire myiza bahavuye bavuga bati “reka turabe ingine twojya hamwe kugira ngo dushobore kugira amatohoza: tumenye ibyo biziga iyo biza biva, tumenye ingene abo bantu bishwe, tumenye n’icyabitumye. Ikigaragara twebwe tuvuga nuko ku muce w’Uburundi turemeza  neza yuko ata Barundi bapfuye muri ubwo buryo, ata Barundi barigera bavuga bati ‘twarabuze abantu’ kandi ikigaragara nuko bigaragara ko baza bava mu Kagera bagaheza bakisuka mu Rweru.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Muvuze ko mwemeza mudashuidikanya yuko atari Abarundi kandi utubwiye yuko mwari kumwe n’Abanyarwanda mujya kureba ibyo biziga uko ari bitatu, ese n’Abanyarwanda nabo baremeye yuko abo bantu barimo barava mu Rwanda atari Abarundi?

 

Minisitiri Edward Nduwimana: Ego, barabyemeye nabo kuko biranaboneka kuko murabizi ingine amazi atemba, byaboneka ko baza bava mu Kagera, Akagera naho urabye iyo kaza kava kaza kava mu Rwanda hanyuma bagaheza bakisuka mu Rweru, ahantu hitwa ku Idagaza. Ahitwa ku Idagaza niho Urweru ruhurira n’Akagera, niho rero ibyo biziga vyoheza bikaboneka. Biraboneka rero yuko atari ibiza biva kuri cote y’Uburundi ariko ko biza biza mu mice y’Akagera y’u Rwanda ariko kuba rero biva muri uwo muce w’Akagera ntibisigura yuko ari Abanyrwanda nicyo gituma haheza haba amatohoza kugira ngo duheze tumenya yuko abitabye Imana ari Abanyarwanda cyanke yuko ari Abarundi cyanke abandi bo mu kandi kabira, mu kindi gihugu kuko nabyo birashoboka, igikuru rero muri mwene ibyo ni uko iyo abantu bitabye Imana, ikiremwamuntu murazi ko ari ibintu bibabaje kandi biteye ubwoba, igikuru ni uko haheza haakaba amatohoza bahageza hakamenyekana abo bantu abo ari byo n’ingine vyoba vyaragenze.

 

Felin Gakwaya: None mbere y’uko tujya ku kibazo cy’amatohoza, umuntu yabanza akabaza ati “ese ku kibazo cy’imibare cy’abantu imaze kuza aho ngaho, mwavuga ko ubu ngubu bamaze kungana bate?”

 

Minisitiri Edward Nduwimana: Aho inzego z’umutekano z’Uburundi n’u Rwanda bashikiyeyo abo bashoboye kubona bari batatu ariko amakuru tubwirwa n’abarobyi baba abo mu Rwanda cyanke abo mu gice cy’Uburundi baremeza yuko ibyo biziga bishobora kuba birenga 40 kira noneho n’uyu munsi hariho ibindi bibiri byabonetse umengo guhera ejo, byabonetse biza bimaze no kumera nabi, hariho ndetse n’icyahavuye kimenyekana yuko umwe muri ibyo biziga hariho umwe yoba yaaratwawe n’uruzi, ava mu Rweru byemejwe n’ishyirahamwe ry’abarobyi babyemeje kuko aribo bashoboye kumumenya byumvikana rero ko bisaka ko haba amatohoza, ukuri kukamenyekana ariko umubare twobabwira ni uko gushika uno munsi ibyo biziga bishobora kuba birenga 40.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Hanyuma ku matohoza muvuze, ubu ngubu umuntu yavuga ngo ayo matohoza ageze he?

 

Minisitiri Edward Nduwimana: Ayo matohoza urazi ingine amatohoza murabizi ingine amatohoza agenda, amatohoza afatira ku bintu bitandukanye: ubwa mbere na mbere ni uko haba abantu bavuze bati “twarabuze abacu” kugira ngo abajejwe amatohoza  baheze bagire aho bahereye. Ikindi nacyo ni uko hoheza hokaba umuntu ushobora gutanga uruyambu rw’ingine ibyo bintu biba byagenze, ni ukuvuga yuko uko amatohoza aba ababijejwe bariko barabikora bafatiye nkumbure ku makuru bagenda bararonka hirya no hino igikuru ni uko dusaba Abarundi gukomeza babumbariranye, babumbatiye amahoro n’umutekano cyo kimwe n’Abanyarwanda kandi yuko imigenderanire hagati y’ibihugu byacu yobandanya itsimbatara, itera imbere kuko ifatiye ku bintu vyinshi cyane, ahanini rero twibaza yuko abajejwe gutohoza icyo gikorwa bariko baragikora, nihagera bazotubwira ingine ibintu biriko biragenda. Gushika ubu nababwira yuko haba ku muco w’u Rwanda haba ku muco w’Uburundi igikorwa kiriko kirakorwa ngira ngo ni uguheza bokarindira uwo wese ukeneye ukuri kuzoteba kumenyekana.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Mbere yuko nkomeza ikibazo cyanjye, reka mbanze nkumvishe uyu murundi mugenzi wanjye yagiyeyo, reka wumve uko yamubwiye amaze kugerayo!

 

Umurobyi w’umurundi: Ni cyo gituma ijambo bashyikirije bagize bati “aba duhambye ni abagenzi, ntitwomenya iyo baturuka”, urabona baje bazananye Akagera, kava mu Rwanda gashyika mu Rweru, gashyitse mu Rweru rero, uramva bavuga ngo bakorere amatohoza dusanga Abanyagihugu irwara zari zibarembeje kuko bari batangiye gusanguka kuko si aba abandi batanguye gushyika mu Rweru barasangutse. Bamaze kuraba icyo, icyo bahise bafata, bafashe ingingo yo kubanza kubahamba, batubwira ko bashobora gukora itohoza. Mugabo, twebwe abanyagihugu turindiranye igishyika ryinshi turebe icyo ryagerako kuko ubu byicanyi  burarenze kamere.

 

Umuntu umurabye mu maso waramubonye, iyo aba nka nyinewe yari kumenya ati “uyu muntu ni uwangaha” kuko uwo twaciye twitegereza mu igunira neza yari umuntu ukiboneka mu maso kandi aboneka ko akeye, umuntu nyine ubona ko umenga yari umutegetsi n’inzara zariko neza, umurabye wabona ko ari umuntu asazwe yaranarima.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Murumva uwo nguwo yarabyiboneye, yagiye no kureba ahantu aho ngaho wari utubwiye nyine Idagaza, ahantu babahambye, bafite ikibazo abaturage: kuki mwihutiye kubahamba mutari mwakora iperereza? Ni iki cyatumye mudashobora kubanza gukora iperereza mbere yuko mujya guhamba aba bantu?

 

Minisitiri Edward Nduwimana: Ngira ngo ubwa mbere na mbere ho nuko n’uko mwimvise n’uwo mwenegihugu ingine abivuze aremeza ko batashoboye kumenya abo bantu abo ari bo. Ni ukuvuga yuko nabo baravuga yuko twarabonye ko ari ibiziga mugabo ariko tugerageje kuraba ntitwashobora kumeya abo ari bo. Byumvikane ko nk’Umurundi ari ko arabivuga aribivuga ngo ntitwashoboye kubamenya. Ikindi nacyo twashoboye kubona nuko nk’uwo bavuga babonye twe twarabonye yuko ari umuntu ashobora kuba ari umuntu w’umusirimu, umuntu utari nyarucari. Byumvikana rero yuko umuntu nk’uyu arinze yitaba Imana ngaha mu gihugu cyacu cy’Uburundi ndetse mu Ntara zose, mu makomine yose, ku mitumba yose ntashobora kwitaba Imana ngo bireke kumenyekana kira noneho abo baba ngaha murumva yuko bo nyine bari kumenya ko ari Umurundi. Gushika uno munsi rero ni ukuvuga yuko amatohoza ategerezwa kubandanya kugira ngo tumenye abo bantu iyo baje bava, abo ari bo n’icyatumye ibyo bintu biba. Ikigira kabiri nacyo nuko ntitwari kurindira yuko amatohoza abanza kurangiza, murazi yuko yo umuntu yitanbye Imana ni ngombwa ko ahambanwa iteka, agafubwa; uretse ko ari uburenganzira bwiwe nk’ikiremwa muntu nuko bishobora no kononera amagara y’abandi kuko nk’uko mubyumva aho mu kiyaga Rweru hari hatanguye kuba ingorane bishobora no gutera ikibazo cy’umutekano ku bijyanye n’amagara y’abenegihugu. Ni cyo gituma rero twahise tuvuga tuti “byiza ni uko bafubwa”. Nagira ngo mbabwire yuko ibijyanye n’amatohoza naho umuntu yaba yapfuye bashobora gupima igufwa bakamenya aho yaje ava; hariho abantu bafite ubuhinga buhamabaye ku bijyanye no gukora amatohoza murabizi ababinonosoye cyane ku bijyanye n’ama equetes, ku bijyanye n’ibyigwa bize, umuntu naho aba yapfuye, bamufubye, bamuhambye urashobora kumuzura, ugapima igufwa ryiwe, ukamenya ingine byagenze. Ubu rero nibaza yuko igikuru ni uko aho bahambwe ari ahantu hazwi, ari ahantu abahinga bashobora gushika. Uwokwifuza wese kugira iryo tohoza yashobora kuhashika agakoresha ubuhinga tuzi yuko bushobora kandi bwizwe n’abahinga haba mu bihugu by’iwacu no mu bindi bihugu.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Wenda  reka mbaze iki kibazo tya: mu Burundi nta bushobozi mufite bwo gukora ibizami mbere yo guhamba umuntu kugira ngo mumenye ngo uyu muntu yari kanaka, yishwe n’iki ngiki, bimwe bita ‘autopsie’?

 

Minisitiri Edward Nduwimana: Ibyo nta bushobozi nibaza yuko icyo bagira nuko imbere yo guhamba umuntu yapfuye mu buryo mwene ubwo haraba abajejwe kugira amatohoza icyo bita ‘constant de l’OPJ’ aba ahari, hakaba na ‘expertise’ ya muganga. Aha rero nibaza yuko ibyo nabyo birashoboka ariko nagira ndababwire ngo ku bijyanye n’amatohoza ntacyo biba byishwe naho byaba bitakozwe, uwobyifuza birashobora gukorwa ariko ndagira ndababwire ko mwene ibyo cyane cyane biheze bigakorwa  mu gihe amatohoza nyir’izina amaze gushika mu mfuruka yayo hamwe habye ugira ati “Nyubuna ntabariza, ndabira umuntu yari uwanjye menye yuko yishwe n’iki n’iki”. Aha nibaza yuko ibyo byabirekera abajejwe amatohoza nkumbure tugafatira no ku makuru agenda araboneka buke buke bizoheza bikorwe nibaza yuko atari Abarundi gusa n’amakungu akeneye kumenya ukuri kuri ibyo byabaye.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Impamvu nari mbibajije nuko hari amakenga menshi arimo arabanzwa haba mu Rwanda haba naho ngaho mu Burundi, nk’uko nawe wari ubivuze: uravuga yuko ntawamenya niba ari Abanyarwanda cyangwa niba ari Abarundi cyangwa se niba ari abandi, umuntu akavuga ati na cyane cyane ko hariho nkabo bagiye bagasangangana nk’amakarita ya mitiweli yo ku Gisenyi mu Rwanda, hari abari bambaye udupira twanditseho Ikinyarwanda, ibimenyetso nk’ibyo ngibyo ko byabonetse, kuki byo byo mutabifata kugira ngo mubihereho mutangire gukora amaperereza na cyane cyane yuko noneho hari abandi bakiza kugira ngo mutajya gukora amaperereza nyuma kandi mushobora gukora amaperereza mu bihe bitangira, bigifatika, hari ibintu bishobora gutuma mumenya abantu abo ari bo?

 

Minisitiri Edward Nduwimana: Bariya bari bambaye udupira tw’Ikinyarwanda kandi n’amakarata ya mitiweli yo mu Gisenyi murumva rero yuko atari Abarundi bojya kugira amatohoza kuko twebwe ku byerekeye Uburundi uretse ko bahambye ku butaka bwacu kubera batowe ku butaka bw’Uburundi murumva ko amatohoza ategerezwa gukorwa n’Abarundi [aha shobora kuba yaribeshe, yarashakaga kuvaha ko amatohoza yakorwa n’Abanyarwanda] na cyane cyane nibaza yuko abo bantu bemeza ko muri ibyo biziga bari bafite mituelle z’Ikinyarwanda, bakaba bafise n’udupira tw’i Gisenyi murumva yuko amakuru atanguye kuboneka, ubwo mwoheza mukabaza ngira ngo mu Rwanda bariko barakora amatohoza kugira ngo bamenye yuko haba mu Gisenyi, haba mu yindi micungararo yabo ata mwenegihugu waba waritabye Imana. Murumva rero yuko icyo kibazo atari abarundi bocyishyura kuko buretse yuko bahambwe mu Burundi ni hamwe mu Kirundi tuvuga ko “ko nta si idahamba”. Aho umuntu aguye hose barashobora kuhamuhamba.

 

Felin Gakwaya: None ko wari watubwiye ko bigitangira mwakoranaga n’Abanyarwanda mujya kureba ibyo biziga, mubona ibyo ari byo, mwemeranya n’aho bituruka, ntabwo mwashyizeho umurwi hamwe wo gukora iperereza ngo murikorere hamwe?

 

Minisitiri Edward Nduwimana: Icyo nobabwira cyo ni uko Uburundi n’u Rwanda dusazwe dufise ingine dukorana ku bijyanye n’ibibazo by’umutekano nk’ibihugu duhana imbibe n’Intara zihana imbibe zirafise ingine zikorana ku bijyanye n’amahoro n’umutekano. Aho rero nibaza yuko mu gihe byoba ngombwa Abanyarwanda ko wumva hari bimwe bimwe byemeza ko hari bafatanwe ibyangombwa by’u Rwanda mu gihe bodusaba yuko twofashanya gukorana icyo gikorwa twogikorana ariko nibaza yuko gushika ubu icyo dushyima ni uko imigenderanire ari myiza haba ku bijyanye no kubungabunga amahoro n’umutekano ku Ntara duhana imbibe ata ngorane zirimo, njye nibaza ko n’icyo gikorwa tuzoheza tukagikorera hamwe kandi ukuri kukajya ahababona.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Amashyirahamwe arengera agateka ka kiremwa muntu aho ngaho mu Burundi aravuga yuko afite impungege z’uko leta itababwira aho iperereza rigeze kugira ngo bashire amakenga cyangwa se bahumurizwe, leta ibabwire aho icyo kibazo ikigejeje, mwababwira iki ubu ngubu?

 

Minisitiri Edward Nduwimana: Leta ntiha raporo ayo mashyirahamwe. Ayo mashyirahamwe kuko arafise ingine akora, n’ingine agira amatohoza nayo. Leta iyo hageze ko iha raporo abenegihugu ibicisha mu nama nshingamateka bakayibaza ingine ibyo bintu biriko biragenda. Ayo mashyirahamwe rero izo  mpungege zayo ni ukuyumva kuko niko kazi kabo ka minsi yose ariko Aburundi bakeneye kumenya ukuri barazi ko babicisha mubo batoye: Inama nshinga mateka na nkenguza mateka haba mu bibazo babaza Umushikiranganji kanana cyanke ibibazo bashobora kubaza Icyegera cy’Umukuru w’igihugu.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Umuntu yavuga yuko muri aya maperereza murimo murakora azarangira ryari?

 

Minisitiri Edward Nduwimana: Nobabwira yuko twebwe amaperereza erega nk’uko nabibabwiye murumva ko hari ibimaze kugaragaza yuko abo bitabye Imana atari Abarundi biciye kuri ibyo byangombwa bafatanwe, ku mpuzu bari bambaye, murumva rero yuko na mwebwe nka bamenyesha makuru murazi yuko koko abo bantu batari Abarundi. Byumvikana yuko twebwe ku bijyanye n’amatohoza ata kihuta kirimo kuko nta Murundi witabye Imana. Ni ukuvuga rero yuko ata matohoza turiko twirihutira kuko nta murundi twabuze, twibaza yuko icyo kibazo mwoheza mukakibaza ahandi.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Ntago mubyihurisha kuko biri ku butaka bwanyu, abantu murimo murabahamba, ntabwo mwafata iki kibazo mu buryo bukomeye kugira ngo mutubwire muti “wenda amaperereza turimo turakora turabona azarangira igihe iki n’iki”?

 

Minisitiri Edward Nduwimana: Ku bijyanye n’Uburundi twe twibaza yuko kubona bahambwa ku butaka bw’Uburundi ni uko nkumbure ibyo biziga biba byatowe ku butaka bw’Uburundi kandi bitaba byamenyekanye bene byo ngo tubibashikiriza bashobore kubihambana iteka, nabibwiye rero mu Ikirundi baravuga yuko “ata si idahamba” ndetse ngira ngo nowagira tradution mu rurimi rw’Igifaransa wene uwo mugani urabaho: aho umuntu aguye hose baraheza bakamufuba kuko ni uburenganzira bwa kiremwa muntu bwo guhambwa iyo yitabye Imana.

 

Felin Gakwaya: N’ubu ibi ngibi birimo birakomeza kuza ubu nabyo murahita mubihamba?

 

Minisitiri Edward Nduwimana: Yego cyane. Nabyo ni byaba ngombwa turaheza tubifube kuko nk’uko nabibabwiye ni uburenganzira bwa kiremwa muntu yuko iyo cyitabye Imana baheza bakagifura. Ni ibintu byumvikana cyane bijyanye no kubahiriza agateka ka zina muntu nibaza yuko ata kundi biri bugende nabyone turaheza tubifube.

 

Felin Gakwaya: Arakoze Edward Nduwimana, nshimire n’abangenzi banjye Cyriaque Muhawenayo na Phocas Ndayizera bamfashije gutegura kino kiganiro n’abandi bose twashoboye kuvugana muri kino kiganiro namwe mwese mwaduteze amatwi. Aha niho turangirije Imvo n’Imvano y’uyu munsi. Mwari kumwe na FelinGakwara. Ni akagaruka!

 

**N.B Twandukuye biganisha mu kinyarwanda kurusha ikirundi. Abo bibangamiye batubabarire

2 thoughts on “Ikiganiro Imvo n’Imvano cyo kuwa 13/9/2014

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